Hi, Jim!

MaryAnn :)

Hi Jim!

Good afternoon. Felix from South Jersey

Hi Jim

Good morning from Salem, OR!!!

Hi Jacek

Greetings from the Adirondacks, NYS

Hi Dean. I lived near Plattsburgh for many years

Rev. Dr. Phillip Fleming, CRPA, NYCPS-P, CCAR-RC, Hon. D.Div. U.L.C.WCNY-IPA Regional Peer Network Coordinator, New York City RegionPeer Specialist, Bee Well LLC, Fountain HouseFountain House Board of Directors and Council MemberCCAR-Designated Recovery CoachOrdained Minister, Univeral Life Church Ministriespfleming@balticstreet.orgBusiness Phone: 347-542-6880eFax Number: 718-228-7027

I love the Adirondacks! I went to Union College in Schenectady and have spent a lot of time in upstate NY

I think people who don't pretend to be experts are the best people - so often I've come across people telling me what I'm doing wrong and what would "fix" me. They seem to think they know more about my life than I do.

I know Union well. Siena Grad,

Victoria BC is talking about peer ride alongs with the police but they would still defer to the police. Better than nothing, I guess.

Actually Tucson AZ has Crisis Response Peers

Helen "Skip" Skipper is the Executive Director of the NYC Peer Justice Initiative, based out of BrooklynSkip's contact info: Mobile - 929-330-9554Email address - NYCJPIExeDir@cases.org

Also, peer support means different things to different people.

@Francesca that is so true.

"Peer" is a creepy word to me,

How come?

That's awesome Cherene! Sounds very similar to the Wellness Collaborative of New York and the NY Statewide Regional Network.

ELAN http://www.thelaststopfilm.com

Cherene, How did you recruit your staff at startup to ensure they were psychiatric survivors?

Thank you for speaking about psych survivorship <3 so important and a piece of our history that is often forgotten

Thank you so much Abbe for interpreting your responsibilities in the way you do. We Peers all need to share in that interpretation.

This is brilliant - I've always been afraid of police so non-police would have made me a lot more likely to reach out.

Greetings Everyone, I am the Chair of the NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) Peer Leadership Council. If there is anything that we do to continue or efforts in helping better the lives of those with lived experience of a mental health condition please feel free to reach out. Peer Support and the Peer Voice are valuable. blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

@Mia yes ma’am I can relate.

Recently in Victoria BC there was a man experiencing a mental health episode. The police showed up in an armored vehicle. They broke 3 windows and threw tear gas in. While this was happening,, a neighbour was screaming that the man was not dangerous, just experiencing a crisis. Poor man, must have been terrified!

See robwipond.com re: 988 rollout.

That is the exact thing we need to avoid, Francesca.

Just horrible, Fransesca

we are target practice

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Law enforcement is trained to use force and escalate, so that's what they do

Yes, mobile crisis teams are also coercive and in my city are employing "peers" / mental health technicians and causing a lot of moral injury because it puts peers in ethical dilemmas and turns them into tools for systems we are working so hard to challenge.

@Fransesca that is so sad but unfortunately it was not the first time and in my opinion, I believe 988 will make those horrible instances decrease and allow people to get the proper help they need without trauma.

coercion is not consent

Nami is not helpful for people in crisids

806, 2022Government Forum Reveals 988 Call Tracing Remains a ThreatGalleryGovernment Forum Reveals 988 Call Tracing Remains a ThreatArticles, Mental Health, Technology Privacy SurveillanceGovernment Forum Reveals 988 Call Tracing Remains a Threat: https://robwipond.com/archives/3873

There was another episode in the east where a mother phoned 911 because her daughter was experiencing a crisis. Six, SIX, officers showed up. She was so frightened she jumped from her balcony to her death. Heartbreaking.

Yes, NAMI has a history of furthering police agendas at least in my state (WI).

In fact, our own Oregon "model" mobile crisis team via "CAHOOTS" does not itself require that a Peer Specialist be a member. A few of us together with Mind Freedom International have talked with them and encouraged them to include that specific role. In fairness, CAHOOTS has identified several of their team members as having lived experience backgrounds, but their roles are not openly identified as being Peer values-based.

I have lived experience.

Wisconsin will kill you, no lie.

Obviously a LOT of people think that a crisis, or emotional overload is no longer a normal part of being human, and so, we can no longer sob, yell, or break down under loads. No longer grieve, tear up, laugh too much, etc etc etc

@Sam and Nze I am interested in knowing why you both feel that why. If there are instances or examples that you can send my why I would love to bring them up to new leadership. As an 18 year Army Veteran with lived experience of a mental health condition I am interested in seeing what we can do to improve so please feel free to email me the examples and how we can reach ot to reply. blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

There's a difference between forced hospitalization and forced treatment. In Ontario, only the former is possible.

I intentionally kept my suicidal thoughts to myself during my breakdown because I was afraid of being strip searched. The fear of that happening put my life at risk. I needed somewhere I knew that wouldn't happen.

Some NAMI state or city chapters do support Recovery Principles well. It would be good if the national NAMI positions would stop supporting outpatient commitment and false concepts like "anosognosia." As a retired psychologist specializing in brain injury assessment and treatment, anososgnosia is NOT the lack of awareness that NAMI and Amador Javier have tried to portray it. In fact, Dr. Amador is now using the term "lack of awareness" publicly to fall into line with evidence-based research and clinical standards.

I agree with everything you said about Crisis Now. Alaska is planning on implementing it and I am working on getting other alternatives available.

yes

We're so lucky to have you, Jim!

@Diane Banks, the NAMI conference I attended in my state recently had a police officer as the main keynote.... Lol that's why I feel that way. The officer was touting all the work WI has done with police to "help" mental health advocates by training officers. It was a joke. So frustrating to listen to.

wow

This is so disturbing.

Indeed.

NAMI and MHA are mostly funded by BIG PHARMA

My 12 yr old grandchild was handcuffed a month ago when she said she was considering suicide due to trauma. The IVC'd and transported via police car, handcuffed 2 1/2 hours to in patient facility.

Exactly Felice!

Was there an inquiry re: Daniel Prude?

To me, this and other horrific incidents like Daniel Prude, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Deborah Danner are more than disturbing.

Dianne, I think this information presented here is a good place to learn of what not to do, but I know that NAMI would never operate within these visions. NAMI is a huge non help to try and get away from the LENS of everything being PSYCHIATRIC.

F**k NAMI

Got to say the police in Victoria BC have always treated me well, no doubt due to my position of privilege: white, middle-age and middle-class.

yes in school

Toronto's police chief just made a big apology. Toronto police own data shows BIPOC people are 1.6x as likely to be stopped, carded, arrested, whatever. When that woman fell to her death evading the police who were there "to help" her there was a big outcry, then nothing. People are not believing the chief, no one is accountable, no sign of real change. The problem is much bigger. It is iatrogenic to the whole neo-liberal capitalist and colonialist society we have created. Change required is way upstream of the "mental health industry" of which peer support is becoming part of.

yes

I remember the girl was crying and asking the officers why she is being placed in handcuffs. Very terrible!!

My 29yo son is in a hospital now. Police picked him up 2 weeks ago he was delusional. he has been living off and on streets in Dallas since Oct 2021 I have had to evict him due to him bring homeless people into my home, I currently do not live at my home due to safety. Selling it. I live with a friend now. My question is he will be released from hospital and has no place to go except be on streets again. He will not survive homeless. Does anyone have suggestion about how I can help him find a place to live.

I always hate the way the term "threat" is used when talking about suicide.

I am a Peer Services Director specializing in crisis alternatives based in informed consent models, harm reduction, Peer Run Respite & Peer Run Warmline operations etc. I also do TA and speaking for various peer led orgs. If anyone is interested in connecting my email is adanzeokoronta@gmail.com

Of if anyone wants to connect about psych survivorship too <3

This is an excellent presentation, Abbe!

@Nze not sure which conference that was as I was just assigned as the Chair on yesterday. 😊However, I can relate to it being hard to listen to as I was not at that conference. I am currently working on my dissertation to complete my Doctoral Degree in Forensic Psychology on “Hostility, Justice, and Unity: A Study on Race and Policing” that has an emphasis on Mental Health. What let me there is my very own experience of incarceration and being involuntary hospitalized which is why I am so passionate about bringing change so please feel free to send me any information. I am not here to sell NAMI but to see how collaboration and partnership can improve these sad situations. blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

Folks who identify with being a psychiatric survivor, there are opportunities for us to organize! check out www.mindfreedom.org. Check out our Shield program and Judi's Room!

Thank you, Sarah!

Thanks Sarah!!

Nze, keep up the good work!

@Diane Banks Thank you, sounds like we are in similar fields of study/work. I'll be in connection! This was NAMI Wisconsin, Mary Kay Battaglia is their ED. My email is adanzeokoronta@gmail.com. I'll shoot you a message after this and we can connect :)

This study does not surprise me. Not at all.

Dianne, it is harmful to a person, to make them believe they are ill. Tired of pretending we can make a phony and broken narrative, better. Read Sammi Tamimmi on MIA. He says you can't fix a rotten system, and he';s a shrink

can you resend those articles or link them in the chat?

Oregon does a poor job of collecting meaningful commitment data as well.

Sorry late to thus seminar who is talking ?

I can't pull those links out while I'm sharing the slides but I will post them here later

Institutional Abuse

Eamonn, this is Cherene Caraco presenting.

Jacek, I just expressed the same opinion to Drake Eubank and members of the FreeDavid social media team. We need data for better infographics. We have the artists but we lack research stats

There's not just voluntary vs. involuntary status. There is also "voluntary but scared."

It would be nice to be able to save the chat.

I agree, Jim. Not sure that feature can be activated mid-presentation.

I would like to ask Cherene for a roadmap for activists in other states on how to obtain involuntary treament and outcomes data for our state (Oregon)

I am able to download the chat as a text file from Zoom. If you'd like to have it let me know by sending an email to cafetacenter@gmail.com

Thank you, Jeremy.

@Sarah I can get you those stats later today What exactly do you need?

Washington State still has issues with unjustly boarding people.

That’s great! Thank you Jeremy.

NM I see Oregon Involuntary outcomes

this is an excellent presentation. I hit the wall emotionally being involved in the movement for 12 years to end force and coercion in the mental health system (I identify as the mother of a psych survivor who didn't feel at home with NAMI because of their lack of commitment to human rights) and I had nearly given up out of despar thinking that my efforts and the efforts of others haven't resulted in any meaninful change in our community but this series has lifted my hopes and renewed my commitment to activism. Thank you Cherene. If you could do this much good in SC, then we can do it here in Oregon!!

@Jack , Sam, and Nze I appreciate your feedback.

It is the "partnership" that is problematic.

I am from western NC. We have people wanting to develop peer services. Some of us are also active NAMI members.

I agree with you, Diane, about a potential for sharing with NAMI around our common interests since I have seen local chapters do it. However, it will take, IMHO, national NAMI shifting gears in major ways to accomplish what a few local chapters have done.

@Mary Ann feel free to reach out to me I have several emails to organizations within NC that maybe of interest and help to you. blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

Sent you an email, Diane :) looking forward to connecting and seeing what work we can accomplish together through co-learning & understanding

Is there a peer-run alternative in Texas?

Thank You Nze I sent you one as well.

I am embarrassed that I came to this webinar from a conference where "Abbe" was presenting on a similar topic, and referred to Cherene

s great presentation as being done by "Abbe."

@Jack yes you that is so true and that is exactly what I shared prior to discussing my concerns with new leadership I would love to connect with you and get some more information.

Did you have to purchase insurance?

hja4@msn.com

NC House bill 788 in NC

Blessed are the peacemakers and the diplomats, especially psych survivors who patiently to educate NAMI family members and leaders about the traumatizing nature of force and coercion. NAMI endorsed the expansion of force and coersion by endoring the CURES bill. I'm not cut out for that work of workign with NAMI but I appreciate those who are!!

@Michelle I am in El Paso and along with the work I do with NAMI, I am affiliated with the National Association of Peers will be having a conference in Dallas. Feel free to reach to me.

Will a recording of this be made available to activists? Can I post it on our website as a resource for our members, many of whom are in the backwards

Maintaining those important boundaries are emotionally draining at times, Sarah, particularly when so many are survivors of the trauma-producing system "interventions" that NAMI supports.

NAMI has a program called Help Not handcuffs. So how does this play into the discussion about NAMI?

@ Sarah thank you for that information, every organization is not for everyone and I truly appreciate your powerful statement.

Sarah, do you have a link I can use to see about CURES bill?

Great name, Mary Ann.

@Mary Ann yes it does and it is a powerful program that started out in Florida I believe that we are putting on a National platform.

"Help" is not helpful

Please don't tell people they are MI. How awful to live your whole life believing what you feel is an "illness" and that you are sick in your head. It';s a horrible thing to do to people

Avoiding police handcuffs is one thing, but substituting non-police while sending folks off to involuntary treatment/medication as the answer for "what is best for them" is not acceptable either.

As I stated, NAMI supported national legislation to expand the use of force and coercion by providing block grants to states that implement AOT! I'm furious that NAMI members don't even know this. This is why I am not cut out to work with NAMI, the ignorance of their own organization's positions is too draining for me to deal with in addition to supporting my daughter whose life was nearly destroyed by psyhiatric 'treatment' by force

Thank you Sam!

21st Century Cures Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Century_Cures_Act

I have to run. Another great presentation. I will try and watch the rest later.

The police started it in Washington state in my case. Handcuffed yet not arrested. For driving squirrelly on private property sleep deprived and fumbling over my words. Taken Tom The ER and grated as a subhuman put in restraints for 8 hours out of 9 hours in ER. It was ugly and violent

Thank you Stan

There is a webinar series around Help Not Handcuffs. next one is June 29. Around trauma awareness.

Welcome Felice

I have to scoot also. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you, Mary Ann. Link?

I was locked up with murders and rapist.

Its not Rocket Science people need compassion ect. in crisis

Very sorry for being so late - I was on another meeting, but I plan to watch the recording, and I am happy to be present during the discussion

Just an fyi. When I realized that my challenging feelings and subsequent actions were related to something was going on in my brain, it was such a relief. So the biological factor was so very helpful to me. I stopped blaming myself and thinking I am a somehow defective person.

Sarah I would love to talk to you, not to get you to work with NAMI but to see how I can help bring change with the valid topics you brought up. If not that is fine but I really would like to further this conversation to see if there is anything that I can do to bring about a change blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

Have to go now. Thank you Cherene et al. See you next Thursday!

Thank you Cherene for sharing and speaking truth again today.

Mary Ann, Mindfreedom supports your right to perceive yourself as having a disease and seeking psychiatric interventions to help your brain function better as you see fit. We are not trying to take away your right to access services which you find helpful! But we are opposed to forcing all people into a one size fits all box and subjecting them to forced drugging/shock by force! People should have choices, real choices and options!!

Mary Ann, please support my daughters right to seek peer support or a drug free, non force options as I support your rights to seek psychiatric care!!!

Have an appointment. Good to be here today!

I would like slides; yuliamikh@gmail.com

cahoots, Denver star, paramedic co responder

@Stan that CURES is frightening....

Diane, I want your email but I'm not sure if you spelled it correctly? My email is sarah@mindfreedom.org. I am difficult to talk to because I feel so passionately that psychiatry harmed my daughter and I'm not willing to water down my truth for the sake of diplomacy. But I am willing to try to be civil and open and have a dialogue.

Mary Ann, of course your brain thinks, feels, reacts. It is NOT a defect, therefor it does not need to be named a biological illness. But if you find relief in believing in your brain being ill, after all, it's another belief

fantastic presentation Cherene, please send slides and info please . yamonn56@gmail.com

Geo location is flat out wrong!!

This is contrary to common sense A 988 operator can ASK "where do you live or where do you want to receive services. Duh

Yes it is, Felice. More frightening: have you heard Thomas Insell's recent talk drawn from his book. Apparently since drugs didn't work, big tech is here to help. There will be an app soon to "fix" us.

hi please send a copy of slide and 17 rd

@Sarah I completely understand I have lost a brother to suicide and I have been through a journey of trauma that involved involuntary commitment and incarceration. They only difference with me is I turned my pain into purpose so trust me I want the complete truth and I believe in keeping it 100. So I understand passion and I believe there is away to communicate with being respectful and keep it real I will email you now and we can set up a time to converse. 😊

https://www.leaders4health.org/resources/webinar-with-dr-tom-insel-healing-our-path-from-mental-illness-to-mental-health/

Dukesmyrna@gmail.com send copy thanks

Will do Myrna

@Diane ❤️

What's 211? I'm from the UK.

Diane, i am sorry for the loss of your brother and I look forward to hearing from you

@Sarah I emailed you and my email is blessed_highly_favored01@yahoo.com

Thank you for validating my perspective. NAMI invalidated my perspective but I understand that not all NAMI members have the same perspective

Thank you NAMI and I look forward to chatting with you as well. I humbly apologize for anyone to include NAMI members that made you feel invalidated.

Ironically I feel a lot more represented by you because though we may be our own people you recognise that and are willing to listen unlike a lot of people and organisations who just talk over our lived experience.

@Stan thank you!

NAMI should have more peers in key leadership roes. 51% board formula would be a good start, then swear off funding from big Pharma Good goD this is so basic. Would climate activists accept money from big Oil?

211 is basically a number people can call to access social service resources.

Not sure how it works - copying and pasting my questions from Q&A: Later today, I will have a meeting at my college about a fresh Check Day planned for Fall 2022. It is organized by the Jordan Porco Foundation. The materials about this event that we were sent have some good aspects, but they also encourage students to call a 988 if they think someone is suicidal. I will raise my concerns about this part, but I am generally considering how to proceed with my reaction to this event in my college. Does anyone know anything about Fresh Check Day and Jordan Porco? I would appreciate any advice

I was in despair before attending this webinar. Now I am feeling more hope.

@Sarah that is on my list…I absolutely agree! We will discuss that when we chat.

I personally witnessed my daughter in five point restraints while in a private hospital This is seriously traumatizing and disempowering for a parent. As parents, we are traumatized by the treatment of our children!!

I guess My wondering is this. If I'm in crisis do I want to call NAMI who thinks my state of experience is a defect in my brain, or this specific warm line, where it might save me from some more trauma, and might make me feel non defective in my brain.

Of course, people directly impacted are not funded by pharma companies - we don't have this level of resources

yes

@Sarah my apologies, I meat thank you and I look forward to chatting with you as well.

Perfectly said Cherene. Be transparent.

Yes, I once called 999 for an ambulance after some friends took an overdose just to get them treatment for the overdose but the call handler called the police and they went to their home and they broke the door down. I didn't know the police were going to be involved.

Thank you, Cherene

Abolish geo location. It is sneaky and erodes trust in the very people whose trust is critical for follow up treatment with providers to be effective.

@Sam what area of the Nation are you located?

Thank you, Cherene and Jeremy, for another great presentation. Like Sarah, I feel inspired. Great to see so many of my fellow activists here. I would like to celebrate our diversity. So much strength among us. Peace and love!

Why can't 988 operators simply ask callers "where do you live?" or where do you want to receive services?" If the callers doesn't want to disclose location information, that should be honored. Basic stuff. DUH

John Ferrone, would you like to connect with me about college issues? yuliamikh@gmail.com

Sure, Yulia. But I'm not the expert... I'm just thinking through the dots that are currently connected. jferrone@ferroneassociates.com

amen to coming together🙂

People should also be warned about risk of suicide after MH involvement or prescribed drugs. I have known quite a few people that are now gone. IN MOST instances they were on psych drugs, no one ever investigates whether they were on them or in withdrawal phase.

@ Amy I second that Amen.

Stan, great to see you here today!! Peace and love back at you!!

Yes Cherene

@Sam that is so true I actually was in that number, where my medication caused the action, that led me to incarceration. That is something that is so needed.

Judi's Room: Viewing the Suicide Prevention Industry Through a Critical Lens (June 6, 2022): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtuRcGneUjM

Lets not forget that suicide is the number one cause of death for law enforcement. Although COVID has been more over the last few years.

Absolutely

Amy, do you have a link or a source for this statistics that suicide is number one cause of death for police?

amym.namihallga@gmail.com

they are NAZI

Suicide by cop is a real thing.

Cherene, can you offer a roadmap to those of us in Oregon who don't yet possess statistics on involuntary treatnent in our state?

How many years did it take you to obtain those stats in NC?

These have been amazing!!!! Thank you all soooo much!

thank you, thank you, thank you ALL!!!! I have really enjoyed being a part of this series and appreciate all of your perspectives and wisdom

🙏 ✌️ ❤️

I can't believe the govt funded this!!

Thanks so much you two and guests